Importance of setting the timing?

[hvacdwelis]

I am haveing trouble finding someone to degree my timign in. I need a bit of help on this.

1. You guys over here know who and where I can go & an idea of the cost???
2. Do I have to have it all degreed in? the mechanic that doe sour fleet work and builds racecars for their own shop says NO, just set the top dead center an dput it together???
3. Is there a diffrence on the harmonci balancers? IE: late models and early, the shop I took mine too says I may have gotten the wrong one for & that is why the hole won't line up on their wheels????

[DerickS]

Are you talking about degreeing a cam in after installation or just timing your car? Degreeing a cam is important when building an engine yes. If you are taking about timing it yes there is a difference in some front covers on smallblocks where the timing pad or numbers will be on the passenger side and not line up with a balancer. I have forgotten what years were different from one engine to the next, maybe someone else can help us out here please??

[MrN2OBelvedere]

Degreeing in a cam is a fairly straightforward procedure. You need a dial indicator and a degree wheel and some kind of pointer to do it, and depending on your timing chain you may need offset timing keys. You can also advance and retard the timing of the cam as a tuning tool, advancing biases things toward low end output and retarding the cam does the opposite. Its not something I would pay to have done. Its one of those things that will be expensive because it requires a lot of labor, not necessarily a lot of technical ability.

[catfish]

I believe '67 - '69 had the timing tab on the passenger side and '70 up on the drivers side.

catfish

[hvacdwelis]

OKAY!!!!! Now that i've had a bit to process this and calm down.....I will try and explain this best I can. Went to get the cam degreed and timing set this afternoon and we ran into a ****e load of problems I guess?????

1. the machine shops degree wheel won't lineup with my balancer????

2. His deal for going into the holes for the hyd rollers won't fit into the holes snugg like they are suppose to????

3. I think I have the wrong balancer???

4. Does this all "need" to be done??? as i said mechanic says just set timing and TDC and you are good no matter the cam????

5. I don't have the tools for this stuff???

6. Never in my life done this before????

7. Don't understand "degreeing" the cam????

Here is what i just checked and found out, I have pics. The "stock" balancer I had in compared with the one the other one when the key ways are matched up all the marks on all four sides of the balancer are off of eachother by a a inch???? so i gues that may make it so the machine shops wheel will work for it after all, to late to call will check that tomorrow i guess.

Not sure if my stock blancer is still in good shape there is a grove in it the other one doesn't have????

Here is also a pic of the timing cover I'm not sure But I THINK the marks are on the driver side????

I am sorry for all this nutzness and idioticy, but this is all COMPLETLY new to me guys, VERY FIRST time doing any real motpr stuff. REALLY need help though this is waaayyyy past frustrated and ready to end it all,LOL.

Anything else you guys need i'l get it to you if i can...If ANYONE wants to talk to me directly PLEASE call ANYTIME......CELL # (520)256-9667 JT

[Cheapstreet_duster]

you can find top dead center real easy on the motor.. even if the cover or balancer mark is different.
place masking tape around the balancer (360*)
go get a 2" long bolt that is the same diameter and thread count as your sparkplugs..
pull all the plugs from the motor..
rotate the engine clockwise by hand/wrench. and bring #1 piston up on the compression stroke,,
(find compression stroke by placing thumb over #1 plug hole and turn crank until you start to hear wooshing-air forced out..)
(if your cam gear isnt hooked up or pushrods installed...just keep reading ill explain how to do that part also..)
stop turning the crank.
thread in the bolt to #1 plug hole.
slowly turn crank over clock wise until the piston contacts the bolt..
find a reference on the block/timing cover near the balancer and make a mark on the balancer.
now rotate the crank counterclockwise (300+*) until again comes in contact with the bolt..
now mark the balancer again..using the very same reference point...used before..
exactly half way between those two marks is TDC on the combression stroke.
(now take a new piece of tape going from mark to mark.
and transfer the marks on to the new tape...
remove tape...fold it in half....lining up both marks..
mark the center/fold... and transfer this back to your balancer...you now have TDC....
take a piece of tape and go 360* make marks than then fold that in half and you will have BDC (bottom dead center)

if the heads are off do the same thing.
find a way to securely stop the piston near the top of the bore....say 1" down roughly....
mark it at the clockwise stop..
rotate back counter.....mark it at the counterclockwise stop..
and exactly half way in between the two marks is tdc..
now set the cam gear up to that mark ...and your set ..
cheapst
before you do this...i suggest removing all the pushrods....if they are assy that far...along...
tdc will be tdc it wont mater....once you find it mark it on the crank perminently ...and
assy the cam gear accordingly......

[primalbeans]

Thats a neat way of doing it... so does the bolt neat to be long enough to contact the piston or the lenght of the plug only? It would seem that if it was long enough that it would contact the piston it would work bes for this but you would ned to be jentle turning it over by hand as to not ding that piston too hard but i could see how that would work... the piston hits the top of the combustion chamber before tdc?? you mark it... then... on its symetrical position on the down stroke found by turning it backwards till it hits... so the thec connecting rods are in a symetrical positon and half the crank angle between the two points is TDC... very good mini tutorial there cheapst... ive never had to do it... good info though and if i ever do thanks a bunch

[catfish]

That's definitely a '70 - up timing cover. Are both those dampers for the same motor? The stocker looks like it's for a cast crank 340 or 360. I can't tell from the photos if the aftermarket damper is equivalent of not. Have you used both in the past? The outer ring on one could have slipped, but using Cheaps tutorial, you should be able to determine if either one is lined up or not.

catfish

[MYBD318]

You have the balancers face to face IIRC the timing marks won't line up. IIRC the keyway does not like up directly with the timing mark for TDC.
Mike ar MRL will correct me if I'm wrong here.
There is a casting number that will verify what it is...
DAMPER IDENTIFICATION AND CASTING NUMBERS:
Year CID Crank Type Casting Number Bolt Pattern
65-68 273 Forged 1947235 Offset
69-71 318 Cast 2951673 Offset
72-73 318 Cast 3614369 Symmetrical
74-80 318 Cast 4095633 Symmetrical
68-71 340 Forged 2951673 Offset
72 340 Forged 3614369 Symmetrical
72-73 340 Cast 3751160 Symmetrical
71 360 Cast 3512972 Offset
72 360 Cast 3614370 Symmetrical
73-77 360 Cast 3751808 Symmetrical
78-80 360 Cast 4173447 Symmetrical
78-80 360 Cast 4095632 Symmetrical

[hvacdwelis]

SO! to check the "new" balancer I should pu the timing chain on and set the TDC than put the balancer on & if it sits at o on the timing cover than that balancer will be okay?????

If it doesn't I could possibly still use it just use cheaps way of geeting TDC????

[Force Fed Mopar]

Looks like the ring on the original has slipped. The new one should be bang on, cam should be degreed in for best results anyway, but it isn't absolutely necessary. 95% of engine built don't have the cam degreed in. As long as the timing marks on the timing gears are lined up, you will be fine.

[Brewzer67]

Originally Posted by MYBD318

You have the balancers face to face IIRC the timing marks won't line up. IIRC the keyway does not like up directly with the timing mark for TDC.

That is correct MyBad, he needs to turn them so they are both the same orientation they would be when on the crank. If he does that the marks should line up. If they don't, then it's time to figure out if the ring has slipped by setting TDC and mounting the cover and balancer and seeing how it falls...

[hvacdwelis]

ohhhhhhhhh now i understand what the hell you guys are talking about. That center rubber piece right????? It's all chewed up. I stopped by my mechanic's today and talkled to him about it and showed it to him he said it "looked" to him like that had spun around. He said that may have been why the last time the car was running before i pulled the motor to start the build it was running so crappy and being a super ass pain to time and adjust?????

I will do that tomorrow ASAP....I'll put the timing chain on and set the TDC than put the both on and see where they set and take pics.

[hvacdwelis]

I wanna double check with you guys on the way I set up my timing chain. Since I gotta wait for my rocker arms....

OKAY!!!! So I got the cahin on and put both coggs in the top key way position and they wouldn't line up so I left the crank cogg in the regular position and used the offset key way kit that I got form Mancinni and kept chaging the key ways till they lines up. I used the red one with the slightly off set key way so now the cam has been advanced "I THINK" so now the little nubbs on both coggs are lined up with eachother and the center of the block. When I poped on the timing chain cover on and the balancer and the mark for TDC is about 2* BTDC.

Question is!!! IS THIS CORRET....NOTE: I DID NOT USE A DEGREE WHEEL..

[catfish]

For best results you need to centerline the cam using a degree wheel, piston stop, 1" travel dial indicator, magnetic base and pointer. The chain, gears, cam keyway position, crank keyway position all have tolerance that could cause you cam to be installed a bit off what's best. You'll lose free hp & tq if you don't install at it's intended location. Maybe someone is close enough to help you with this.

catfish

[Phil]

Check with Mark and see if he can help you degree it in. Depending on your timing set but most SB Mopar have the crank and cam gear timing dots both at 12 o'clock.